Jump to content

The Mailer Review/Volume 3, 2009/Editing Mailer: A Conversation with Jan Welt and Lana Jokel: Difference between revisions

Line 16: Line 16:


'''Chaiken:''' What were you majoring in at Syracuse?
'''Chaiken:''' What were you majoring in at Syracuse?
<br>
'''Welt:''' Theater.
'''Welt:''' Theater.
<br>
<br>
Line 43: Line 45:


'''Chaiken:''' Working with Shirley Clarke, were the films of the New American Cinema an influence?
'''Chaiken:''' Working with Shirley Clarke, were the films of the New American Cinema an influence?
<br>
'''Welt:''' In the mid-sixties, I lived with my wife on St. Mark’s Place, directly
'''Welt:''' In the mid-sixties, I lived with my wife on St. Mark’s Place, directly
across from the Bridge Cinema where the New American Cinema was
across from the Bridge Cinema where the New American Cinema was
Line 79: Line 83:
<br>
<br>


Welt: Before I got there Mark Woodcock, another filmmaker working with
'''Welt:''' Before I got there Mark Woodcock, another filmmaker working with
Leacock-Pennebaker, was helping Norman to synch the Wild 90 rushes. It
Leacock-Pennebaker, was helping Norman to synch the Wild 90 rushes. It
was around this time that everyone in the offices took off for San Francisco
was around this time that everyone in the offices took off for San Francisco
Line 98: Line 102:
films, just in terms of shots, there weren’t a huge amount of options. It was
films, just in terms of shots, there weren’t a huge amount of options. It was
cut, more or less, slate to slate based on the rolls Norman liked best.
cut, more or less, slate to slate based on the rolls Norman liked best.
<br>
'''Chaiken:''' Was Norman a patient supervising editor? What was the dynamic
'''Chaiken:''' Was Norman a patient supervising editor? What was the dynamic
like that developed between the two of you? Michael Chaiken { 509
like that developed between the two of you? Michael Chaiken { 509
Line 111: Line 117:


'''Welt:''' The sound was our Achilles’ heel. It was complicated by two factors.
'''Welt:''' The sound was our Achilles’ heel. It was complicated by two factors.
Our soundman was Bob Neuwirth who was a folkie, boyfriend to Edie Sedgwick and Bob Dylan’s road manager at the time. You can see him running
Our soundman was Bob Neuwirth who was a folkie, boyfriend to Edie Sedgwick and Bob Dylan’s road manager at the time. You can see him running around ''Don’t Look Back'' (1967), the famous Dylan documentary Pennebaker directed. Neuwirth wasn’t trained to do this kind of thing, so sometimes he’d have the mic pointed in the wrong direction. The other factor, the one that ultimately did the film in, was the optical soundtrack used on the 16mm projection prints. Optical soundtracks are terrible under any circumstances. The original Nagra sound reels Neuwirth recorded weren’t so bad, but when it was mixed down to optical, we lost so much of the sound that it left us with an inaudible mess. I was agitating for putting on subtitles, but it never happened. After the premiere at the New Cinema Playhouse, Norman took out
around ''Don’t Look Back'' (1967), the famous Dylan documentary Pennebaker
directed. Neuwirth wasn’t trained to do this kind of thing, so sometimes he’d
have the mic pointed in the wrong direction. The other factor, the one that
ultimately did the film in, was the optical soundtrack used on the 16mm projection prints. Optical soundtracks are terrible under any circumstances. The original Nagra sound reels Neuwirth recorded weren’t so bad, but when it was mixed down to optical, we lost so much of the sound that it left us with an inaudible mess. I was agitating for putting on subtitles, but it never happened. After the premiere at the New Cinema Playhouse, Norman took out
a full page ad in the New York Times offering anyone their money back if they
a full page ad in the New York Times offering anyone their money back if they
didn’t like the film. Guess what happened . . .
didn’t like the film. Guess what happened . . .
Line 128: Line 130:
whose very existence was thanks to Norman’s investment in it.We had great
whose very existence was thanks to Norman’s investment in it.We had great
ambitions for the company. Had the films been more successful we probably would have been able to realize some of them.
ambitions for the company. Had the films been more successful we probably would have been able to realize some of them.
<br>
'''Chaiken:''' By the time ''Wild 90'' premiered, you were already editing Beyond
'''Chaiken:''' By the time ''Wild 90'' premiered, you were already editing Beyond
the Law, which you also helped shoot. What can you remember about the
the Law, which you also helped shoot. What can you remember about the
Line 192: Line 196:
'''Welt:''' They did. Mainly because they already had a built in audience for the
'''Welt:''' They did. Mainly because they already had a built in audience for the
kind of films they distributed. They were far more organized, had their
kind of films they distributed. They were far more organized, had their
own catalog, and were able to reach more people. Particularly on the college and film society circuit which was their bread and butter. For the same
own catalog, and were able to reach more people. Particularly on the college and film society circuit which was their bread and butter. For the same reasons, New Line Cinema eventually ended up with ''Maidstone'' (1968–1970). Bob Shaye, who at that time was essentially working out of his apartment on 15th St. and 2nd Ave., took Maidstone and helped distribute it to college campuses. Bob started New Line Cinema after picking up a print of ''Reefer Madness'' (1936) and distributing it to college film societies. They soon became a great distributor of political, avant-garde and foreign films.Way out stuff by Jean-Luc Godard, Peter Watkins and us.
reasons, New Line Cinema eventually ended up with ''Maidstone'' (1968–1970).
<br>
Bob Shaye, who at that time was essentially working out of his apartment on
 
'''Chaiken:''' When did you first hear about Norman’s idea for Maidstone?
Welt: After we finished Beyond the Law, I was twiddling my thumbs on salary. Then it all just started. Norman told me he wanted to make a movie about a film director who had become so popular that he was going to run for President of the United States. This was right after Robert Kennedy’s assassination in June 1968. Next thing I know, I’m in East Hampton making
this crazy movie with what seemed liked hundreds of others dedicated to the same crazy movie.
 
'''Chaiken:''' How much footage do you estimate was shot on Maidstone?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' It was something close to 250,000 feet on 400 foot rolls of color reversal film.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' What do you remember about the shoot?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' The absolute chaos. All of the cameramen were mobile chess pieces. I
was initially assigned to follow Rip and his group, The Cashbox, but when
nothing was happening with them I decided I would go look for better targets of opportunity and just start shooting anything that moved. I can
remember having lunch at Barney Rosset’s East Hampton estate when his
wife came running into the living room screaming ‘There’s a dead baby
floating face down in the swimming pool!’ So Jose Torres runs out and discovers it’s not a baby, but actor Hervé Villechaize. He’d drank himself into a stupor and was floating face down in the Rosset’s pool. They were able to resuscitate him, but still had to take him to the hospital. It was quite an ordeal as he nearly drowned to death.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' Were you around for the fight between Norman and Rip?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' Shooting had essentially wrapped by the time Rip attacked Norman.
All the groups had broken up and people were now just waiting to go home.
I remember I was with Buzz Farber and Nina Schulman, my sound person
throughout the shoot. We’d all gone to the beach for the day. Coming back I caught the tail end of the fight and immediately went for my camera. There were actually four cameras on the fight. Aside from my own there was Leacock, Pennebaker and Daniel Kramer, a still photographer, who you can see at one point trying to break Norman and Rip apart. When the film was edited I primarily used Pennebaker’s roll as an unbroken take.We tried a few different approaches, though in the end we found using the long take was best.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' In Maidstone, Norman appears adamant that he is not going to
include any of the fight footage in the film. Was there ever any serious consideration of not using it?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' Norman needed a bit of convincing, but he quickly came around after
he saw how well it worked with the rest of the film. How could one exclude
a roll as priceless as that from a film that essentially had no ending? It terms
of structure, it had to be in there. It gave the film this whole other dimension and made it much more affecting.
'''Chaiken:''' Was there any indication beforehand that Rip was going to attack
Norman in the way that he did?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' Well, you’ll remember that Rip pulls out a derringer during the Grand
Assassination Ball scene. The intent there was that he would take Kingsley
out if no one had gotten to him first. That much was discussed beforehand,
only it never came off. Rip shows Norman the gun and that’s it. I think Rip
was stewing a bit over the failure of that scene so he came up with this whole
other approach. I honestly don’t think he intended to seriously hurt Norman, but the fact that it turned out the way it did, with Norman coming up into the down stroke of the hammer blow, was unfortunate for the both of them, but it certainly made for great cinema. I still contend that Rip saved the picture.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' Was Maidstone edited at Leacock-Pennebaker?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' By the time we got to edit Maidstone we had moved out of LeacockPennebaker to an upstairs office in the same building. Maidstone cinematographers Nick Proferes and Jim Desmond had started their own company,Proferes-Desmond Films, and that’s where we worked. It was around this time that I was doing interim work as an editor on Michael Wadleigh’s
''Woodstock'' (1970). Working on that film, I had come up against the KEM editing table, which gave you the ability to have three screens going simultaneously. Pretty sophisticated stuff for 1969 ... the KEM dictated the tripanel look of Woodstock. I was pretty astonished by them as an editing system and suggested to Norman that we buy a couple and make some extra
money by renting them out. So we did and that’s how Maidstone was edited,
on a KEM with three screens going simultaneously. It was a very convenient
way for us to handle that much material.
 
'''Chaiken:''' Did you watch all the rushes with Norman?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' Yes, we looked at all the rushes together. It took nearly two months.We
were absolutely meticulous about it. One had to be because there was so
much material—it was the only way to stay above water and not drown in
the footage.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' How did the film begin to take shape?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' The rushes would talk to you. There were some shots that just stood
out. You’d grab those and put them onto a separate reel of ‘keeps’ until
finally, from that morass of 30 plus hours of footage, we ended up with a 3 1/2 hour ‘keeps’ reel. Lana, Norman and I worked on that material for quite some time, putting together a rough cut just shy of three hours. I always thought that cut was the best version of the film.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' What can you tell me about the original version?
<br>
 
'''Welt:''' Unfortunately, the differences between the two versions have all
receded into the distant fog of memory. There was a lot more exposition and
more interactions between Norman and Rip. I also remember the original
dream sequence being sensational. I’d spent many hours working on it
before Norman came in and started playing with it. He would sometimes get
on the editing table and vigorously start cutting and splicing.With Norman,
sometimes a little knowledge was a dangerous thing.
<br>
 
'''Chaiken:''' Did you make a dupe print of the long version?
Welt: No, I don’t think I ever did. I certainly agitated for it to be done, but
unfortunately it never happened. That version is probably lost forever. I
know we never kept the original edit of the dream sequence, which was
something I took utter pride in because it flowed so nicely. It had a much
14

edits