The Mailer Review/Volume 13, 2019/On the State of Mailer Studies: A Conversation with J. Michael Lennon: Difference between revisions

m
More fixes. Removed banner.
m (Fixed minor spacing and punctuation errors.)
m (More fixes. Removed banner.)
 
Line 1: Line 1:
{{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="font-size:22px;">{{BASEPAGENAME}}/</span>{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}
{{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="font-size:22px;">{{BASEPAGENAME}}/</span>{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}
{{working}}
{{MR13}}
{{MR13}}
{{byline|last=Sipiora|first=Phillip|url=http://prmlr.us/mr13sip|note=[[J. Michael Lennon]] is the author or editor of several books, including ''A Double Life'', the authorized biography of Norman {{NM}} (Simon & Schuster, 2013). Lennon was a founder of The [[Norman Mailer Society]] and has served as President of the Society for most of its existence. His deep, long-term friendship with Mailer has inspired a number of works by Lennon and he is currently co-editing, with [[Susan Mailer]] and [[Jerry Lucas]], Norman Mailer’s ''[[Lipton’s Journal]]'', a reflective, introspective journal focusing on Mailer’s marijuana experience, written in 1954–1955. Lennon is also writing a memoir, “Getting on the Bus: Mailer’s Last Years in Provincetown,” which chronicles his experiences with Norman Mailer.}}
{{byline|last=Sipiora|first=Phillip|url=http://prmlr.us/mr13sip|note=[[J. Michael Lennon]] is the author or editor of several books, including ''A Double Life'', the authorized biography of Norman {{NM}} (Simon & Schuster, 2013). Lennon was a founder of The [[Norman Mailer Society]] and has served as President of the Society for most of its existence. His deep, long-term friendship with Mailer has inspired a number of works by Lennon and he is currently co-editing, with [[Susan Mailer]] and [[Jerry Lucas]], Norman Mailer’s ''[[Lipton’s Journal]]'', a reflective, introspective journal focusing on Mailer’s marijuana experience, written in 1954–1955. Lennon is also writing a memoir, “Getting on the Bus: Mailer’s Last Years in Provincetown,” which chronicles his experiences with Norman Mailer.}}
Line 288: Line 287:
He will be a co-editor with Susan and me when it is ready for publication.
He will be a co-editor with Susan and me when it is ready for publication.
Accompanying it will be Mailer’s contemporaneous correspondence with
Accompanying it will be Mailer’s contemporaneous correspondence with
psychoanalyst Robert Lindner, who Mailer sent copies of many of the journal’s entries for comment. Some of Mailer’s letters to Linder, who was a close
psychoanalyst Robert Lindner, who Mailer sent copies of many of the journal’s entries for comment. Some of Mailer’s letters to Linder, who was a close friend, have been published in my edition of Mailer’s letters, but not all.
friend, have been published in my edition of Mailer’s letters, but not all.
Donna located Lindner’s daughter, who also happens to be a psychoanalyst,
Donna located Lindner’s daughter, who also happens to be a psychoanalyst,
and Susan got in touch with her and obtained permission to publish her father’s letters to Norman. They will be in an appendix to the journal manuscript.
and Susan got in touch with her and obtained permission to publish her father’s letters to Norman. They will be in an appendix to the journal manuscript.
Line 295: Line 293:
'''PS''': It’s great to hear that you are winding up the ''Lipton’s Journal''. When do you anticipate publication?
'''PS''': It’s great to hear that you are winding up the ''Lipton’s Journal''. When do you anticipate publication?


'''JML''': I’m not sure. Much of that will be up to Jerry and his editing, after
'''JML''': I’m not sure. Much of that will be up to Jerry and his editing, after which Susan and I will go over it one more time. It has been held up a little because Susan was immersed in completing her memoir, ''In Another Place: My Life with and without My Father, Norman Mailer''. We would like to publish Lipton’s in Mailer’s centenary year, 2023.
which Susan and I will go over it one more time. It has been held up a little
because Susan was immersed in completing her memoir, ''In Another Place: My Life with and without My Father, Norman Mailer''. We would like to publish Lipton’s in Mailer’s centenary year, 2023.


'''PS''': After a long, long time, the Library of America finally began publishing Norman Mailer. Why is this development so important for his stature in the future?
'''PS''': After a long, long time, the Library of America finally began publishing Norman Mailer. Why is this development so important for his stature in the future?
Line 305: Line 301:
for the foreseeable future. The Library of America, which was founded in
for the foreseeable future. The Library of America, which was founded in
the 1970s, publishes only a small number of books. In fact, only about three
the 1970s, publishes only a small number of books. In fact, only about three
hundred and twenty-five books, all told. Early on, they published only long deceased authors. However, over the past ten years or so, they changed that
hundred and twenty-five books, all told. Early on, they published only long deceased authors. However, over the past ten years or so, they changed that policy. Now, Updike, Roth, Sontag, and Didion volumes have come out, all
policy. Now, Updike, Roth, Sontag, and Didion volumes have come out, all
Mailer contemporaries. The first two Mailer volumes, published in 2018,
Mailer contemporaries. The first two Mailer volumes, published in 2018,
contain four of his books from the 1960s, and about 35 of his essays from
contain four of his books from the 1960s, and about 35 of his essays from
Line 312: Line 307:
back to his earlier work, like ''The Naked and the Dead''. We are having discussions on the schedule, although no conclusions have yet been reached.
back to his earlier work, like ''The Naked and the Dead''. We are having discussions on the schedule, although no conclusions have yet been reached.


I think that there is merit in publishing a volume in 2023, and ''The Naked
I think that there is merit in publishing a volume in 2023, and ''The Naked and the Dead'' strikes me as perhaps the best choice, especially if we can include supplementary materials by Mailer that bear on the novel. By that I mean two prefaces that he wrote for later editions of the novel, and some of
and the Dead'' strikes me as perhaps the best choice, especially if we can include supplementary materials by Mailer that bear on the novel. By that I
mean two prefaces that he wrote for later editions of the novel, and some of
the unpublished letters that he wrote during the war. When he was in the
the unpublished letters that he wrote during the war. When he was in the
Philippines, he wrote numerous letters home to his first wife, Beatrice. I included about ten of them in ''Selected Letters of Norman Mailer'', but there are
Philippines, he wrote numerous letters home to his first wife, Beatrice. I included about ten of them in ''Selected Letters of Norman Mailer'', but there are many more. They are important because they were essentially planning documents for ''The Naked and the Dead''.
many more. They are important because they were essentially planning documents for ''The Naked and the Dead''.


Mailer wrote about four hundred letters during this time and it will not
Mailer wrote about four hundred letters during this time and it will not
be difficult to find twenty good ones that could accompany a new edition of
be difficult to find twenty good ones that could accompany a new edition of
''The Naked and the Dead''. My wife and I are going through all those old letters right now, reading copies of the original letters, which have to be transcribed. I had not looked at them for over ten years, and was astounded at
''The Naked and the Dead''. My wife and I are going through all those old letters right now, reading copies of the original letters, which have to be transcribed. I had not looked at them for over ten years, and was astounded at
how good they are. Norman had some wonderful insights about his wartime experiences, his reading, his plans for ''The Naked and the Dead'', and his time
how good they are. Norman had some wonderful insights about his wartime experiences, his reading, his plans for ''The Naked and the Dead'', and his time in occupied Japan. He also talks about his family, reading ''The Razor’s Edge''
in occupied Japan. He also talks about his family, reading ''The Razor’s Edge''
by Somerset Maugham, ''The Decline of the West'' by Oswald Spengler, Thomas
by Somerset Maugham, ''The Decline of the West'' by Oswald Spengler, Thomas
Mann and others. Norman was a voracious reader, as you know.
Mann and others. Norman was a voracious reader, as you know.
Line 342: Line 333:
job, and they have this wonderful Smythe binding, a sewn binding. The Norman Mailer Society made a contribution to underwrite the first two volumes, for which I am very grateful.
job, and they have this wonderful Smythe binding, a sewn binding. The Norman Mailer Society made a contribution to underwrite the first two volumes, for which I am very grateful.


'''PS''': Serving the primary mission of the Society
'''PS''': Serving the primary mission of the Society.


'''JML''': Yes, certainly
'''JML''': Yes, certainly.


'''PS''': Let me ask you about Maggie McKinley’s forthcoming Cambridge University Press volume on Mailer. Can you tell us a little about your contribution?
'''PS''': Let me ask you about Maggie McKinley’s forthcoming Cambridge University Press volume on Mailer. Can you tell us a little about your contribution?


'''JML''': Sure. Maggie’s volume will be an important reconsideration of Mailer.
'''JML''': Sure. Maggie’s volume will be an important reconsideration of Mailer.
I believe she has over contributors. I know that you’ve done the chapter
I believe she has over contributors. I know that you’ve done the chapter on Mailer as a literary and film critic. She asked me if I would write on Norman Mailer and John F. Kennedy and I was happy to agree. I was surprised at how many places Kennedy shows up that I had forgotten. In my essay, I try to survey all of the major depictions of Kennedy in Mailer’s writing, approximately a dozen.
on Mailer as a literary and film critic. She asked me if I would write on Norman Mailer and John F. Kennedy and I was happy to agree. I was surprised
at how many places Kennedy shows up that I had forgotten. In my essay, I
try to survey all of the major depictions of Kennedy in Mailer’s writing, approximately a dozen.


I looked for the pattern of how his view of Kennedy evolved. His admiration for Kennedy went up and down a little at the beginning, but in the early 1960s, it was always strong. He had a rich, complex view of JFK, and was intrigued by the question of how his Hollywood leading-man appearance affected his political chances. I don’t think that there is any other historical figure that Mailer wrote about as often, and with greater penetration, than Kennedy. He wrote about him, beginning in 1960, and continuing right up
I looked for the pattern of how his view of Kennedy evolved. His admiration for Kennedy went up and down a little at the beginning, but in the early 1960s, it was always strong. He had a rich, complex view of JFK, and was intrigued by the question of how his Hollywood leading-man appearance affected his political chances. I don’t think that there is any other historical figure that Mailer wrote about as often, and with greater penetration, than Kennedy. He wrote about him, beginning in 1960, and continuing right up through ''Harlot’s Ghost'' (1991), and even later. Oliver Stone made a movie,
through ''Harlot’s Ghost'' (1991), and even later. Oliver Stone made a movie,
''JFK'', which Mailer reviewed in a long essay in which he revisited all his earlier ideas about Kennedy. And then, of course, he is a key figure in ''Oswald’s Tale''. Another key text is ''An American Dream'', where he has an off-stage role.
''JFK'', which Mailer reviewed in a long essay in which he revisited all his earlier ideas about Kennedy. And then, of course, he is a key figure in ''Oswald’s
Tale''. Another key text is   ''An American Dream'', where he has an off-stage role.
Kennedy is also in ''Cannibals and Christians''. In fact, he is in all of Mailer’s political books, and two of his novels. Mailer identified with Kennedy to a certain extent; they also had much in common. They were both of the same
Kennedy is also in ''Cannibals and Christians''. In fact, he is in all of Mailer’s political books, and two of his novels. Mailer identified with Kennedy to a certain extent; they also had much in common. They were both of the same
generation—World War Two vets—and they were both fascinated with
generation—World War Two vets—and they were both fascinated with
Line 366: Line 352:
wrote two film reviews, the other one examining, in full unexpurgated rigor,
wrote two film reviews, the other one examining, in full unexpurgated rigor,
Bernardo Bertolucci’s ''Last Tango in Paris''. So, reviewing ''JFK'' is obviously of
Bernardo Bertolucci’s ''Last Tango in Paris''. So, reviewing ''JFK'' is obviously of
paramount significance, which I discuss in my Cambridge essay that examines Mailer’s criticism. You also mentioned Susan Mailer’s recent memoir
paramount significance, which I discuss in my Cambridge essay that examines Mailer’s criticism. You also mentioned Susan Mailer’s recent memoir ''In Another Place'', in which she addresses her relationship with her father.
''In Another Place'', in which she addresses her relationship with her father.
Can you talk about the significance of her book?
Can you talk about the significance of her book?


Line 374: Line 359:
eight. She was born in Hollywood in 1949 when he was living there with Jean
eight. She was born in Hollywood in 1949 when he was living there with Jean
Malaquais, writing scripts for Sam Goldwyn. Susan’s memories go way back.
Malaquais, writing scripts for Sam Goldwyn. Susan’s memories go way back.
She saw her father in a range of contexts because he visited her often in Mexico, and he visited her later in Chile, where she eventually married and lived.
She saw her father in a range of contexts because he visited her often in Mexico, and he visited her later in Chile, where she eventually married and lived. I should add that it is not just a story of Norman Mailer—it is also a story of
I should add that it is not just a story of Norman Mailer—it is also a story of
her own life, which has been bifurcated. Half of Susan’s life was and is spent
her own life, which has been bifurcated. Half of Susan’s life was and is spent
in South America, and half of it in New York City. She lived with her father
in South America, and half of it in New York City. She lived with her father
Line 391: Line 375:


'''PS''': I found In Another Place to be an impressive, exceptionally insightful
'''PS''': I found In Another Place to be an impressive, exceptionally insightful
memoir and I enjoyed reading it very much. Bonnie Culver (Wilkes University) has written a play, ''NORRIS'', which portrays Norris Church Mailer,
memoir and I enjoyed reading it very much. Bonnie Culver (Wilkes University) has written a play, ''NORRIS'', which portrays Norris Church Mailer, Norman’s sixth wife to whom he was married for over three decades, as I
Norman’s sixth wife to whom he was married for over three decades, as I
recall. What does this play tell us—and not just about Norman, but also
recall. What does this play tell us—and not just about Norman, but also
Norris?
Norris?
Line 402: Line 385:
Norris thought that this was a great idea and then, sadly, she died, but Bonnie stayed with the project. Two versions of it have been presented at the annual conferences of the Mailer Society. The script has gone through many
Norris thought that this was a great idea and then, sadly, she died, but Bonnie stayed with the project. Two versions of it have been presented at the annual conferences of the Mailer Society. The script has gone through many
revisions, and Bonnie has received considerable feedback from members of
revisions, and Bonnie has received considerable feedback from members of
the Society, from the Mailer family. ''Norris'' is going to be performed at a playhouses in Santa Monica and Anne Archer will play Norris. Anne is the right
the Society, from the Mailer family. ''Norris'' is going to be performed at a playhouses in Santa Monica and Anne Archer will play Norris. Anne is the right age, a tall redhead, and likes the script very much. So everything looks very
age, a tall redhead, and likes the script very much. So everything looks very
promising and it appears that the opening of the play will take place in Santa Monica. Bonnie is a professional playwright, as you know, and her work has appeared off-Broadway as well in other venues around the country. I believe
promising and it appears that the opening of the play will take place in Santa Monica. Bonnie is a professional playwright, as you know, and her work has
appeared off-Broadway as well in other venues around the country. I believe
that Bonnie recently wrote a review of Susan Mailer’s book, right?
that Bonnie recently wrote a review of Susan Mailer’s book, right?


Line 415: Line 396:
any bearing on Mailer’s life and work, and also publishing such a range of
any bearing on Mailer’s life and work, and also publishing such a range of
fine essays on virtually every aspect of his work, and unpublished Mailer
fine essays on virtually every aspect of his work, and unpublished Mailer
stories and essays, interviews and much more. Each issue you publish contains a detailed annual bibliography on works by and about Mailer that keeps
stories and essays, interviews and much more. Each issue you publish contains a detailed annual bibliography on works by and about Mailer that keeps readers in touch with what is going on within and beyond the scholarly
readers in touch with what is going on within and beyond the scholarly
world. Shannon Zinck, the bibliographer for the ''Review'', does a superb job
world. Shannon Zinck, the bibliographer for the ''Review'', does a superb job
locating all kinds of materials, stuff I never knew existed. She is an exemplary
locating all kinds of materials, stuff I never knew existed. She is an exemplary
Line 427: Line 407:
not for your indefatigable support from the very beginning. We have not
not for your indefatigable support from the very beginning. We have not
published an issue that has not been energized—and improved—by your
published an issue that has not been energized—and improved—by your
critical eye and your excellent suggestions for topics, articles, historical projects, contributors, and so forth. The current volume is number 13, (bringing us to roughly 6,000 pages over 13 years), and we strive to do our best. As you know, we have faced many challenges over time, like all scholarly journals. We are an all-volunteer staff and we certainly make mistakes, mostly my
critical eye and your excellent suggestions for topics, articles, historical projects, contributors, and so forth. The current volume is number 13, (bringing us to roughly 6,000 pages over 13 years), and we strive to do our best. As you know, we have faced many challenges over time, like all scholarly journals. We are an all-volunteer staff and we certainly make mistakes, mostly my errata, but we try to devote ourselves to produce an eclectic periodical that
errata, but we try to devote ourselves to produce an eclectic periodical that
is an ongoing record of relevant developments in all things Mailer. We also
is an ongoing record of relevant developments in all things Mailer. We also
include a range of other kinds of writing, including a section each issue of
include a range of other kinds of writing, including a section each issue of
Line 452: Line 431:


If I had the energy, I would go to Austin right now and start reading as
If I had the energy, I would go to Austin right now and start reading as
much of it as I could. I know that Nicole DePolo is very interested in researching these areas. Nicole is a member of the Mailer Board and she is
much of it as I could. I know that Nicole DePolo is very interested in researching these areas. Nicole is a member of the Mailer Board and she is quite interested because she wants to follow up her earlier work on Mailer’s
quite interested because she wants to follow up her earlier work on Mailer’s
''Ancient Evenings'', which was the topic of her dissertation. Judith, by the way,
''Ancient Evenings'', which was the topic of her dissertation. Judith, by the way,
was one of Norman’s researchers for ''Ancient Evenings''.
was one of Norman’s researchers for ''Ancient Evenings''.
Line 459: Line 437:
'''PS''': Nicole wrote her dissertation working with Christopher Ricks, as I recall.
'''PS''': Nicole wrote her dissertation working with Christopher Ricks, as I recall.


'''JML''': Yes, Christopher Ricks at Boston University. Nicole and John Buffalo
'''JML''': Yes, Christopher Ricks at Boston University. Nicole and John Buffalo have expressed interest in creating a kind of a graphic novel on parts of ''Ancient Evenings'' and the work that Judith did on ''Ancient Evenings'' would surely be very important. I should also note again that the Farley Library at Wilkes has Mailer’s library for scholars to review and attempt to derive a sense of the contents of his mind. The Farley’s archivist, Suzanna Calev, is doing a terrific
have expressed interest in creating a kind of a graphic novel on parts of ''Ancient Evenings'' and the work that Judith did on ''Ancient Evenings'' would surely
be very important. I should also note again that the Farley Library at Wilkes
has Mailer’s library for scholars to review and attempt to derive a sense of the
contents of his mind. The Farley’s archivist, Suzanna Calev, is doing a terrific
job organizing the library and other materials.
job organizing the library and other materials.


Line 469: Line 443:
written a play based on John Mailer’s ''The Big Empty'', The name of the play
written a play based on John Mailer’s ''The Big Empty'', The name of the play
is ''The Two Mailers''. ''The Big Empty'' is comprised of a series of conversations
is ''The Two Mailers''. ''The Big Empty'' is comprised of a series of conversations
between Norman and John in 2003 and 2004, when Mailer was in his early eighties. I have been told that the play is projected to open on Broadway
between Norman and John in 2003 and 2004, when Mailer was in his early eighties. I have been told that the play is projected to open on Broadway with F. Murray Abraham playing Norman Mailer. Julian Schlossberg, a film
with F. Murray Abraham playing Norman Mailer. Julian Schlossberg, a film
and theatre producer, will launch the production.
and theatre producer, will launch the production.


Line 478: Line 451:
out there, manifestations of Mailer’s life, his work, and how he has touched
out there, manifestations of Mailer’s life, his work, and how he has touched
so many people during the course of his life. Now we are starting to see the
so many people during the course of his life. Now we are starting to see the
fruits of these interactions. There is an analogue in what happened in Hemingway studies after he died. Hemingway’s children, siblings, and friends
fruits of these interactions. There is an analogue in what happened in Hemingway studies after he died. Hemingway’s children, siblings, and friends began generating out books, movies, and memoirs about Hemingway and
began generating out books, movies, and memoirs about Hemingway and
his family. And that process continues with books coming out, including
his family. And that process continues with books coming out, including
one written by his grandson.
one written by his grandson.
Line 489: Line 461:
infectious with his knowledge, wit, and acute sense of perspective.
infectious with his knowledge, wit, and acute sense of perspective.


'''JML''': I think that the same thing is happening with Mailer. I should also
'''JML''': I think that the same thing is happening with Mailer. I should also mention how valuable your omnibus collection of Mailer’s essays is becoming for scholars and critics (''[[Mind of an Outlaw]]'', Random House, 2013). It is a great resource.
mention how valuable your omnibus collection of Mailer’s essays is becoming for scholars and critics (Mind of an Outlaw, Random House, 2013).
It is a great resource.


'''PS''': Thanks, Mike. Yes, Outlaw came out concurrently with your biography.
'''PS''': Thanks, Mike. Yes, ''Outlaw'' came out concurrently with your biography.


'''JML''': Random House is publishing more of his books in paperback. Mailer’s
'''JML''': Random House is publishing more of his books in paperback. Mailer’s
Line 521: Line 491:
'''PS''': What does the future hold for you?
'''PS''': What does the future hold for you?


'''JML''': Well, I guess that as far as Mailer studies are concerned, the first thing
'''JML''': Well, I guess that as far as Mailer studies are concerned, the first thing will be to get back to work on ''Lipton’s'' with Susan and Jerry, and continue to collaborate with him on ''Project Mailer''. Another project is my memoir about Mailer’s last days, which will examine some of the things that I have mentioned in this interview: how I first became involved with Mailer, how I became connected to Bob Lucid, and how I served as a kind of apprentice archivist. And, of course, how I finally took over the job of becoming Mailer’s biographer. My memoir will be based in part on the notes that I made during his last years in Provincetown, his “table talk.” I have about twenty-five thousand words written, but I have only just started to work on developing them. It is going to be a long project, but it is something I have wanted to do
will be to get back to work on Lipton’s with Susan and Jerry, and continue to
collaborate with him on ''Project Mailer''. Another project is my memoir about
Mailer’s last days, which will examine some of the things that I have mentioned in this interview: how I first became involved with Mailer, how I became connected to Bob Lucid, and how I served as a kind of apprentice
archivist. And, of course, how I finally took over the job of becoming Mailer’s
biographer. My memoir will be based in part on the notes that I made during his last years in Provincetown, his “table talk.” I have about twenty-five
thousand words written, but I have only just started to work on developing
them. It is going to be a long project, but it is something I have wanted to do
for a long time.
for a long time.