The Mailer Review/Volume 13, 2019/On the State of Mailer Studies: A Conversation with J. Michael Lennon: Difference between revisions
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whom he had off-and-on friendships with—I could name more. | whom he had off-and-on friendships with—I could name more. | ||
He also | He also knew many major writers around the world, including Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Carlos Fuentes, Romain Gary, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis, and | ||
knew many major writers around the world, including Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Carlos Fuentes, Romain Gary, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis, and | |||
Günter Grass. But he never really wanted to be a conspicuous part of the literary establishment. He wanted to maintain a modicum of distance from it | Günter Grass. But he never really wanted to be a conspicuous part of the literary establishment. He wanted to maintain a modicum of distance from it | ||
so that he could criticize it; he was resolute about not losing his independent perspective, and so he backed out of many activities. However, he was | so that he could criticize it; he was resolute about not losing his independent perspective, and so he backed out of many activities. However, he was | ||
president of PEN for a couple of years, and yes, that is certainly the establishment. But he got out of there after only two years. He called it his “church | president of PEN for a couple of years, and yes, that is certainly the establishment. But he got out of there after only two years. He called it his “church | ||
work.” With Norman there was always the sense of “I want to be an outsider. I do not want to be trammeled by my affiliations with any literary, political | work.” With Norman there was always the sense of “I want to be an outsider. I do not want to be trammeled by my affiliations with any literary, political or what-have-you establishment to the extent that it will dampen my independence, or constrict my perspective.” Norman felt that one must be there to speak to one’s time on the planet. He was also exceptionally devoted to his family and his friends; there had to be at least fifty people who thought of themselves as “Norman Mailer’s best friend.” He had a kind of openness, candor, and generosity of spirit with his friends and his family, a personal magnetism. | ||
or what-have-you establishment to the extent that it will dampen my independence, or constrict my perspective.” Norman felt that one must be there | |||
to speak to one’s time on the planet. He was also exceptionally devoted to his | |||
family and his friends; there had to be at least fifty people who thought of | |||
themselves as “Norman Mailer’s best friend.” He had a kind of openness, candor, and generosity of spirit with his friends and his family, a personal | |||
magnetism. | |||
'''PS''': Do you feel that this duality of insider and outsider hurt him at times? | '''PS''': Do you feel that this duality of insider and outsider hurt him at times? | ||
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knowledge.” | knowledge.” | ||
As a novelist, he was an ethnographer | As a novelist, he was an ethnographer and studied the ethos of a society, | ||
the main currents and obscure corners of its identity. That was something | the main currents and obscure corners of its identity. That was something | ||
that he never stopped doing. He felt the need to out there, get immersed, | that he never stopped doing. He felt the need to out there, get immersed, | ||
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Hampshire, Stockbridge, and Bucks County, country places to which he | Hampshire, Stockbridge, and Bucks County, country places to which he | ||
could retreat when New York was driving him crazy with all the demands for | could retreat when New York was driving him crazy with all the demands for | ||
him to appear on talk shows and go to social events. At a certain point he would get sick of that scene | him to appear on talk shows and go to social events. At a certain point he would get sick of that scene and had to get away to get some work done. The insider-outsider identity was something that he cultivated. When he | ||
was living in Stockbridge, in western Massachusetts, with his fifth wife, Carol | was living in Stockbridge, in western Massachusetts, with his fifth wife, Carol | ||
Stevens, he would get bored and say, “I have to go to New York City. I need | Stevens, he would get bored and say, “I have to go to New York City. I need | ||
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As I collected, I began to categorize things and organize them chronologically and thematically, putting documents into archival boxes. I was basically | As I collected, I began to categorize things and organize them chronologically and thematically, putting documents into archival boxes. I was basically | ||
feeling my way and creating my own referential system. But I didn’t know | feeling my way and creating my own referential system. But I didn’t know | ||
what I was doing. As an aside, I would note that most | what I was doing. As an aside, I would note that most PhD programs in that | ||
era offered little in the way of archival instruction. All I knew is that I didn’t | era offered little in the way of archival instruction. All I knew is that I didn’t | ||
want to discard these resources, and I wanted to use them in my writing. The | want to discard these resources, and I wanted to use them in my writing. The | ||
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Mailer resources has surely become a central part of contemporary Mailer | Mailer resources has surely become a central part of contemporary Mailer | ||
Studies. Can you comment in general about this evolving and complex configuration of scholarly and popular access, digital access, and how it relates | Studies. Can you comment in general about this evolving and complex configuration of scholarly and popular access, digital access, and how it relates | ||
to making Mailer’s life and work more accessible, not only for scholars | to making Mailer’s life and work more accessible, not only for scholars but | ||
also for interested readers? | also for interested readers? | ||
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medals, awards, and honorary degrees. Everything was enshrined in a room | medals, awards, and honorary degrees. Everything was enshrined in a room | ||
called the Mailer Room, which is in the E. S. Farley Library at Wilkes University. The centerpiece of the room is his former dining room table, a huge, | called the Mailer Room, which is in the E. S. Farley Library at Wilkes University. The centerpiece of the room is his former dining room table, a huge, | ||
bevelled glass and wrought iron table. | |||
'''PS''': A very impressive, eclectic donation. | '''PS''': A very impressive, eclectic donation. | ||
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When Mailer died, Norris donated all of his library to the Norman Mailer | When Mailer died, Norris donated all of his library to the Norman Mailer | ||
Center, which had been established by Larry Schiller. Larry’s hope was to establish Norman’s library, of approximately 7,000 volumes, at a university where they would take good care of it. For years Larry tried to find a good home and he struck out. Harvard didn’t want it. The Ransom Center at University of Texas, where Mailer’s papers are located, didn’t want it. Finally, Bonnie Culver, the director of the Maslow MFA Program, and I worked with the Farley library at Wilkes, where we already had a foothold, and they were | Center, which had been established by Larry Schiller. Larry’s hope was to establish Norman’s library, of approximately 7,000 volumes, at a university where they would take good care of it. For years Larry tried to find a good home and he struck out. Harvard didn’t want it. The Ransom Center at the University of Texas, where Mailer’s papers are located, didn’t want it. Finally, Bonnie Culver, the director of the Maslow MFA Program, and I worked with the Farley library at Wilkes, where we already had a foothold, and they were | ||
very interested. All of Mailer’s library will eventually be there; three quarters of it is already there. About four or five thousand volumes have been transported, waiting to be catalogued. Larry also packed up Norman’s study in Provincetown, including his desk, chair, lamp, pencils, pens, and various paraphernalia, as well as all the books, dictionaries, and thesauruses that surrounded him in his third-floor study in Provincetown. Bonnie organized the moving of these items from where they were stored in Massachusetts, got them trucked to Wilkes. Donna and I were there for a day helping. His study has now been re-established in a room in the Farley, one approximately the same size as Norman’s study in Provincetown. When you walk in you see the bookcases, the books, the desk, and photos on the wall, including the green Bellevue sign, which was Norman’s reminder of the 17 days that he spent in Bellevue Hospital in 1960 after stabbing Adele, his second wife. The Wilkes collection is a great adjunct to what is archived at the Harry Ransom Center, but it can never exceed it, because Texas has all the manuscripts. Wilkes, however, has the complete Mailer library, which one might say represents the contents of his mind. | very interested. All of Mailer’s library will eventually be there; three quarters of it is already there. About four or five thousand volumes have been transported, waiting to be catalogued. Larry also packed up Norman’s study in Provincetown, including his desk, chair, lamp, pencils, pens, and various paraphernalia, as well as all the books, dictionaries, and thesauruses that surrounded him in his third-floor study in Provincetown. Bonnie organized the moving of these items from where they were stored in Massachusetts, got them trucked to Wilkes. Donna and I were there for a day helping. His study has now been re-established in a room in the Farley, one approximately the same size as Norman’s study in Provincetown. When you walk in you see the bookcases, the books, the desk, and photos on the wall, including the green Bellevue sign, which was Norman’s reminder of the 17 days that he spent in Bellevue Hospital in 1960 after stabbing Adele, his second wife. The Wilkes collection is a great adjunct to what is archived at the Harry Ransom Center, but it can never exceed it, because Texas has all the manuscripts. Wilkes, however, has the complete Mailer library, which one might say represents the contents of his mind. | ||
The Texas archive does | The Texas archive does include Mailer’s research volumes and papers for | ||
several of his books, a few hundred books. Mailer also had about 1500 books | several of his books, a few hundred books. Mailer also had about 1500 books | ||
in a writing room he had in another building in Brooklyn, all of which will | in a writing room he had in another building in Brooklyn, all of which will | ||
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and the Dead'' strikes me as perhaps the best choice, especially if we can include supplementary materials by Mailer that bear on the novel. By that I | and the Dead'' strikes me as perhaps the best choice, especially if we can include supplementary materials by Mailer that bear on the novel. By that I | ||
mean two prefaces that he wrote for later editions of the novel, and some of | mean two prefaces that he wrote for later editions of the novel, and some of | ||
the unpublished letters that he wrote during the war. When he was in | the unpublished letters that he wrote during the war. When he was in The Philippines, he wrote numerous letters home to his first wife, Beatrice. I included about ten of them in ''Selected Letters of Norman Mailer'', but there are | ||
Philippines, he wrote numerous letters home to his first wife, Beatrice. I included about ten of them in ''Selected Letters of Norman Mailer'', but there are | |||
many more. They are important because they were essentially planning documents for ''The Naked and the Dead''. | many more. They are important because they were essentially planning documents for ''The Naked and the Dead''. | ||
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'''JML''': Sure. Maggie’s volume will be an important reconsideration of Mailer. | '''JML''': Sure. Maggie’s volume will be an important reconsideration of Mailer. | ||
I believe she has over | I believe she has over contributors. I know that you’ve done the chapter | ||
on Mailer as a literary and film critic. She asked me if I would write on Norman Mailer and John F. Kennedy and I was happy to agree. I was surprised | on Mailer as a literary and film critic. She asked me if I would write on Norman Mailer and John F. Kennedy and I was happy to agree. I was surprised | ||
at how many places Kennedy shows up that I had forgotten. In my essay, I | at how many places Kennedy shows up that I had forgotten. In my essay, I | ||
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I should add that it is not just a story of Norman Mailer—it is also a story of | I should add that it is not just a story of Norman Mailer—it is also a story of | ||
her own life, which has been bifurcated. Half of Susan’s life was and is spent | her own life, which has been bifurcated. Half of Susan’s life was and is spent | ||
in South America | in South America and half of it in New York City. She lived with her father | ||
when she was a student at Barnard in the 1960s, and took part in his mayoral | when she was a student at Barnard in the 1960s, and took part in his mayoral | ||
campaign. Susan worked on the memoir for a long time, over four or five | campaign. Susan worked on the memoir for a long time, over four or five | ||
years. Its genesis began with her memorial tribute delivered at Carnegie Hall, | years. Its genesis began with her memorial tribute delivered at Carnegie Hall, | ||
published in 2008 in ''The Mailer Review''. Susan continued to write a piece here, a piece there, and she finally decided that she wanted to write a book about her life. She had never written a memoir before, so, it was quite a learning experience for her. She recently gave the keynote address at Wilkes University’s MFA graduation ceremony in January 2020 | published in 2008 in ''The Mailer Review''. Susan continued to write a piece here, a piece there, and she finally decided that she wanted to write a book about her life. She had never written a memoir before, so, it was quite a learning experience for her. She recently gave the keynote address at Wilkes University’s MFA graduation ceremony in January 2020 and talked about what she had to learn in order to become a memoirist. She has done a superb job and her book has received excellent reviews. There was a recent profile article about her in ''The London Times'' and her book has been written about in ''The Wall Street Journal''. I am very happy to have had a finger in Susan’s book, encouraging her, and helping with some factual references. | ||
Susan’s book now joins all of the other important family memoirs about | Susan’s book now joins all of the other important family memoirs about | ||
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Norris thought that this was a great idea and then, sadly, she died, but Bonnie stayed with the project. Two versions of it have been presented at the annual conferences of the Mailer Society. The script has gone through many | Norris thought that this was a great idea and then, sadly, she died, but Bonnie stayed with the project. Two versions of it have been presented at the annual conferences of the Mailer Society. The script has gone through many | ||
revisions, and Bonnie has received considerable feedback from members of | revisions, and Bonnie has received considerable feedback from members of | ||
the Society, from the Mailer family. ''Norris'' is going to be | the Society, from the Mailer family. ''Norris'' is going to be performing at a playhouse in Santa Monica and Anne Archer will play Norris. Anne is the right | ||
age, a tall redhead, and likes the script very much. So everything looks very | age, a tall redhead, and likes the script very much. So everything looks very | ||
promising and it appears that the opening of the play will take place in Santa Monica. Bonnie is a professional playwright, as you know, and her work has | promising and it appears that the opening of the play will take place in Santa Monica. Bonnie is a professional playwright, as you know, and her work has | ||
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tribulations of a very complex multigenerational “tribe.” John has spoken | tribulations of a very complex multigenerational “tribe.” John has spoken | ||
to our graduate students at USF and he is a particularly engaging person, | to our graduate students at USF and he is a particularly engaging person, | ||
infectious with his knowledge, wit, and acute sense of perspective. | infectious with his knowledge, wit, and an acute sense of perspective. | ||
'''JML''': I think that the same thing is happening with Mailer. I should also | '''JML''': I think that the same thing is happening with Mailer. I should also | ||