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{{byline|last=Sipiora|first=Phillip|url=http://prmlr.us/mr13sip|note=[[J. Michael Lennon]] is the author or editor of several books, including ''A Double Life'', the authorized biography of Norman {{NM}} (Simon & Schuster, 2013). Lennon was a founder of The [[Norman Mailer Society]] and has served as President of the Society for most of its existence. His deep, long-term friendship with Mailer has inspired a number of works by Lennon and he is currently co-editing, with [[Susan Mailer]] and [[Jerry Lucas]], Norman Mailer’s ''[[Lipton’s Journal]]'', a reflective, introspective journal focusing on Mailer’s marijuana experience, written in 1954–1955. Lennon is also writing a memoir, “Getting on the Bus: Mailer’s Last Years in Provincetown,” which chronicles his experiences with Norman Mailer.}}
{{byline|last=Sipiora|first=Phillip|url=http://prmlr.us/mr13sip|note=[[J. Michael Lennon]] is the author or editor of several books, including ''A Double Life'', the authorized biography of Norman {{NM}} (Simon & Schuster, 2013). Lennon was a founder of The [[Norman Mailer Society]] and has served as President of the Society for most of its existence. His deep, long-term friendship with Mailer has inspired a number of works by Lennon and he is currently co-editing, with [[Susan Mailer]] and [[Jerry Lucas]], Norman Mailer’s ''[[Lipton’s Journal]]'', a reflective, introspective journal focusing on Mailer’s marijuana experience, written in 1954–1955. Lennon is also writing a memoir, “Getting on the Bus: Mailer’s Last Years in Provincetown,” which chronicles his experiences with Norman Mailer.}}
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whom he had off-and-on friendships with—I could name more.  
whom he had off-and-on friendships with—I could name more.  


He also knew many major writers around the world, including Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Carlos Fuentes, Romain Gary, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis, and
He also
knew many major writers around the world, including Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Carlos Fuentes, Romain Gary, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis, and
Günter Grass. But he never really wanted to be a conspicuous part of the literary establishment. He wanted to maintain a modicum of distance from it
Günter Grass. But he never really wanted to be a conspicuous part of the literary establishment. He wanted to maintain a modicum of distance from it
so that he could criticize it; he was resolute about not losing his independent perspective, and so he backed out of many activities. However, he was
so that he could criticize it; he was resolute about not losing his independent perspective, and so he backed out of many activities. However, he was
president of PEN for a couple of years, and yes, that is certainly the establishment. But he got out of there after only two years. He called it his “church
president of PEN for a couple of years, and yes, that is certainly the establishment. But he got out of there after only two years. He called it his “church
work.” With Norman there was always the sense of “I want to be an outsider. I do not want to be trammeled by my affiliations with any literary, political or what-have-you establishment to the extent that it will dampen my independence, or constrict my perspective.” Norman felt that one must be there to speak to one’s time on the planet. He was also exceptionally devoted to his family and his friends; there had to be at least fifty people who thought of themselves as “Norman Mailer’s best friend.” He had a kind of openness, candor, and generosity of spirit with his friends and his family, a personal magnetism.
work.” With Norman there was always the sense of “I want to be an outsider. I do not want to be trammeled by my affiliations with any literary, political
or what-have-you establishment to the extent that it will dampen my independence, or constrict my perspective.” Norman felt that one must be there
to speak to one’s time on the planet. He was also exceptionally devoted to his
family and his friends; there had to be at least fifty people who thought of
themselves as “Norman Mailer’s best friend.” He had a kind of openness, candor, and generosity of spirit with his friends and his family, a personal
magnetism.


'''PS''': Do you feel that this duality of insider and outsider hurt him at times?
'''PS''': Do you feel that this duality of insider and outsider hurt him at times?
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knowledge.”
knowledge.”


As a novelist, he was an ethnographer and studied the ethos of a society,
As a novelist, he was an ethnographer, and studied the ethos of a society,
the main currents and obscure corners of its identity. That was something
the main currents and obscure corners of its identity. That was something
that he never stopped doing. He felt the need to out there, get immersed,
that he never stopped doing. He felt the need to out there, get immersed,
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Hampshire, Stockbridge, and Bucks County, country places to which he
Hampshire, Stockbridge, and Bucks County, country places to which he
could retreat when New York was driving him crazy with all the demands for
could retreat when New York was driving him crazy with all the demands for
him to appear on talk shows and go to social events. At a certain point he would get sick of that scene and had to get away to get some work done. The insider-outsider identity was something that he cultivated. When he
him to appear on talk shows and go to social events. At a certain point he would get sick of that scene, and had to get away to get some work done. The insider-outsider identity was something that he cultivated. When he
was living in Stockbridge, in western Massachusetts, with his fifth wife, Carol
was living in Stockbridge, in western Massachusetts, with his fifth wife, Carol
Stevens, he would get bored and say, “I have to go to New York City. I need
Stevens, he would get bored and say, “I have to go to New York City. I need
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As I collected, I began to categorize things and organize them chronologically and thematically, putting documents into archival boxes. I was basically
As I collected, I began to categorize things and organize them chronologically and thematically, putting documents into archival boxes. I was basically
feeling my way and creating my own referential system. But I didn’t know
feeling my way and creating my own referential system. But I didn’t know
what I was doing. As an aside, I would note that most PhD programs in that
what I was doing. As an aside, I would note that most Ph.D. programs in that
era offered little in the way of archival instruction. All I knew is that I didn’t
era offered little in the way of archival instruction. All I knew is that I didn’t
want to discard these resources, and I wanted to use them in my writing. The
want to discard these resources, and I wanted to use them in my writing. The
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Mailer resources has surely become a central part of contemporary Mailer
Mailer resources has surely become a central part of contemporary Mailer
Studies. Can you comment in general about this evolving and complex configuration of scholarly and popular access, digital access, and how it relates
Studies. Can you comment in general about this evolving and complex configuration of scholarly and popular access, digital access, and how it relates
to making Mailer’s life and work more accessible, not only for scholars but
to making Mailer’s life and work more accessible, not only for scholars, but
also for interested readers?
also for interested readers?


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medals, awards, and honorary degrees. Everything was enshrined in a room
medals, awards, and honorary degrees. Everything was enshrined in a room
called the Mailer Room, which is in the E. S. Farley Library at Wilkes University. The centerpiece of the room is his former dining room table, a huge,
called the Mailer Room, which is in the E. S. Farley Library at Wilkes University. The centerpiece of the room is his former dining room table, a huge,
bevelled glass and wrought iron table.
beveled glass and wrought iron table.


'''PS''': A very impressive, eclectic donation.
'''PS''': A very impressive, eclectic donation.
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When Mailer died, Norris donated all of his library to the Norman Mailer
When Mailer died, Norris donated all of his library to the Norman Mailer
Center, which had been established by Larry Schiller. Larry’s hope was to establish Norman’s library, of approximately 7,000 volumes, at a university where they would take good care of it. For years Larry tried to find a good home and he struck out. Harvard didn’t want it. The Ransom Center at the University of Texas, where Mailer’s papers are located, didn’t want it. Finally, Bonnie Culver, the director of the Maslow MFA Program, and I worked with the Farley library at Wilkes, where we already had a foothold, and they were
Center, which had been established by Larry Schiller. Larry’s hope was to establish Norman’s library, of approximately 7,000 volumes, at a university where they would take good care of it. For years Larry tried to find a good home and he struck out. Harvard didn’t want it. The Ransom Center at University of Texas, where Mailer’s papers are located, didn’t want it. Finally, Bonnie Culver, the director of the Maslow MFA Program, and I worked with the Farley library at Wilkes, where we already had a foothold, and they were
very interested. All of Mailer’s library will eventually be there; three quarters of it is already there. About four or five thousand volumes have been transported, waiting to be catalogued. Larry also packed up Norman’s study in Provincetown, including his desk, chair, lamp, pencils, pens, and various paraphernalia, as well as all the books, dictionaries, and thesauruses that surrounded him in his third-floor study in Provincetown. Bonnie organized the moving of these items from where they were stored in Massachusetts, got them trucked to Wilkes. Donna and I were there for a day helping. His study has now been re-established in a room in the Farley, one approximately the same size as Norman’s study in Provincetown. When you walk in you see the bookcases, the books, the desk, and photos on the wall, including the green Bellevue sign, which was Norman’s reminder of the 17 days that he spent in Bellevue Hospital in 1960 after stabbing Adele, his second wife. The Wilkes collection is a great adjunct to what is archived at the Harry Ransom Center, but it can never exceed it, because Texas has all the manuscripts. Wilkes, however, has the complete Mailer library, which one might say represents the contents of his mind.
very interested. All of Mailer’s library will eventually be there; three quarters of it is already there. About four or five thousand volumes have been transported, waiting to be catalogued. Larry also packed up Norman’s study in Provincetown, including his desk, chair, lamp, pencils, pens, and various paraphernalia, as well as all the books, dictionaries, and thesauruses that surrounded him in his third-floor study in Provincetown. Bonnie organized the moving of these items from where they were stored in Massachusetts, got them trucked to Wilkes. Donna and I were there for a day helping. His study has now been re-established in a room in the Farley, one approximately the same size as Norman’s study in Provincetown. When you walk in you see the bookcases, the books, the desk, and photos on the wall, including the green Bellevue sign, which was Norman’s reminder of the 17 days that he spent in Bellevue Hospital in 1960 after stabbing Adele, his second wife. The Wilkes collection is a great adjunct to what is archived at the Harry Ransom Center, but it can never exceed it, because Texas has all the manuscripts. Wilkes, however, has the complete Mailer library, which one might say represents the contents of his mind.


The Texas archive does include Mailer’s research volumes and papers for
The Texas archive does includes Mailer’s research volumes and papers for
several of his books, a few hundred books. Mailer also had about 1500 books
several of his books, a few hundred books. Mailer also had about 1500 books
in a writing room he had in another building in Brooklyn, all of which will
in a writing room he had in another building in Brooklyn, all of which will
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'''PS''': That is quite a chunk of authorial history. In relation to the archival work that you have already mentioned, there is the forthcoming publication of his ''Lipton’s Journal'', written in 1954–55 and edited by you and Jerry Lucas, and Susan Mailer. What can you tell us about the gravity of ''Lipton’s Journal''?
'''PS''': That is quite a chunk of authorial history. In relation to the archival work that you have already mentioned, there is the forthcoming publication of his ''Lipton’s Journal'', written in 1954–55 and edited by you and Jerry Lucas, and Susan Mailer. What can you tell us about the gravity of ''Lipton’s Journal''?


'''JML''': The manuscript is in the Ransom Center.I have the carbon copy, which
'''JML''': The manuscript is in the Ransom Center. I have the carbon copy, which
Mailer gave me years ago. Lipton’s is a 110,000-word marijuana journal. He wrote it over a four-month period from the end of 1954 to the beginning of 1955. It is a pivotal piece of work, yet it was never edited or published. He just
Mailer gave me years ago. Lipton’s is a 110,000-word marijuana journal. He wrote it over a four-month period from the end of 1954 to the beginning of 1955. It is a pivotal piece of work, yet it was never edited or published. He just
wrote it and put it away. It became the clearinghouse for his mind in that period, and a stalking horse for ''The White Negro''. It also anticipates many of
wrote it and put it away. It became the clearinghouse for his mind in that period, and a stalking horse for ''The White Negro''. It also anticipates many of
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He will be a co-editor with Susan and me when it is ready for publication.
He will be a co-editor with Susan and me when it is ready for publication.
Accompanying it will be Mailer’s contemporaneous correspondence with
Accompanying it will be Mailer’s contemporaneous correspondence with
psychoanalyst Robert Lindner, who Mailer sent copies of many of the journal’s entries for comment. Some of Mailer’s letters to Linder, who was a close
psychoanalyst Robert Lindner, who Mailer sent copies of many of the journal’s entries for comment. Some of Mailer’s letters to Linder, who was a close friend, have been published in my edition of Mailer’s letters, but not all.
friend, have been published in my edition of Mailer’s letters, but not all.
Donna located Lindner’s daughter, who also happens to be a psychoanalyst,
Donna located Lindner’s daughter, who also happens to be a psychoanalyst,
and Susan got in touch with her and obtained permission to publish her father’s letters to Norman. They will be in an appendix to the journal manuscript.
and Susan got in touch with her and obtained permission to publish her father’s letters to Norman. They will be in an appendix to the journal manuscript.
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'''PS''': It’s great to hear that you are winding up the ''Lipton’s Journal''. When do you anticipate publication?
'''PS''': It’s great to hear that you are winding up the ''Lipton’s Journal''. When do you anticipate publication?


'''JML''': I’m not sure. Much of that will be up to Jerry and his editing, after
'''JML''': I’m not sure. Much of that will be up to Jerry and his editing, after which Susan and I will go over it one more time. It has been held up a little because Susan was immersed in completing her memoir, ''In Another Place: My Life with and without My Father, Norman Mailer''. We would like to publish Lipton’s in Mailer’s centenary year, 2023.
which Susan and I will go over it one more time. It has been held up a little
because Susan was immersed in completing her memoir, ''In Another Place: My Life with and without My Father, Norman Mailer''. We would like to publish Lipton’s in Mailer’s centenary year, 2023.


'''PS''': After a long, long time, the Library of America finally began publishing Norman Mailer. Why is this development so important for his stature in the future?
'''PS''': After a long, long time, the Library of America finally began publishing Norman Mailer. Why is this development so important for his stature in the future?
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for the foreseeable future. The Library of America, which was founded in
for the foreseeable future. The Library of America, which was founded in
the 1970s, publishes only a small number of books. In fact, only about three
the 1970s, publishes only a small number of books. In fact, only about three
hundred and twenty-five books, all told. Early on, they published only long deceased authors. However, over the past ten years or so, they changed that
hundred and twenty-five books, all told. Early on, they published only long deceased authors. However, over the past ten years or so, they changed that policy. Now, Updike, Roth, Sontag, and Didion volumes have come out, all
policy. Now, Updike, Roth, Sontag, and Didion volumes have come out, all
Mailer contemporaries. The first two Mailer volumes, published in 2018,
Mailer contemporaries. The first two Mailer volumes, published in 2018,
contain four of his books from the 1960s, and about 35 of his essays from
contain four of his books from the 1960s, and about 35 of his essays from
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back to his earlier work, like ''The Naked and the Dead''. We are having discussions on the schedule, although no conclusions have yet been reached.
back to his earlier work, like ''The Naked and the Dead''. We are having discussions on the schedule, although no conclusions have yet been reached.


I think that there is merit in publishing a volume in 2023, and ''The Naked
I think that there is merit in publishing a volume in 2023, and ''The Naked and the Dead'' strikes me as perhaps the best choice, especially if we can include supplementary materials by Mailer that bear on the novel. By that I mean two prefaces that he wrote for later editions of the novel, and some of
and the Dead'' strikes me as perhaps the best choice, especially if we can include supplementary materials by Mailer that bear on the novel. By that I
the unpublished letters that he wrote during the war. When he was in the
mean two prefaces that he wrote for later editions of the novel, and some of
Philippines, he wrote numerous letters home to his first wife, Beatrice. I included about ten of them in ''Selected Letters of Norman Mailer'', but there are many more. They are important because they were essentially planning documents for ''The Naked and the Dead''.
the unpublished letters that he wrote during the war. When he was in The Philippines, he wrote numerous letters home to his first wife, Beatrice. I included about ten of them in ''Selected Letters of Norman Mailer'', but there are
many more. They are important because they were essentially planning documents for ''The Naked and the Dead''.


Mailer wrote about four hundred letters during this time and it will not
Mailer wrote about four hundred letters during this time and it will not
be difficult to find twenty good ones that could accompany a new edition of
be difficult to find twenty good ones that could accompany a new edition of
''The Naked and the Dead''. My wife and I are going through all those old letters right now, reading copies of the original letters, which have to be transcribed. I had not looked at them for over ten years, and was astounded at
''The Naked and the Dead''. My wife and I are going through all those old letters right now, reading copies of the original letters, which have to be transcribed. I had not looked at them for over ten years, and was astounded at
how good they are. Norman had some wonderful insights about his wartime experiences, his reading, his plans for ''The Naked and the Dead'', and his time
how good they are. Norman had some wonderful insights about his wartime experiences, his reading, his plans for ''The Naked and the Dead'', and his time in occupied Japan. He also talks about his family, reading ''The Razor’s Edge''
in occupied Japan. He also talks about his family, reading ''The Razor’s Edge''
by Somerset Maugham, ''The Decline of the West'' by Oswald Spengler, Thomas
by Somerset Maugham, ''The Decline of the West'' by Oswald Spengler, Thomas
Mann and others. Norman was a voracious reader, as you know.
Mann and others. Norman was a voracious reader, as you know.
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job, and they have this wonderful Smythe binding, a sewn binding. The Norman Mailer Society made a contribution to underwrite the first two volumes, for which I am very grateful.
job, and they have this wonderful Smythe binding, a sewn binding. The Norman Mailer Society made a contribution to underwrite the first two volumes, for which I am very grateful.


'''PS''': Serving the primary mission of the Society
'''PS''': Serving the primary mission of the Society.


'''JML''': Yes, certainly
'''JML''': Yes, certainly.


'''PS''': Let me ask you about Maggie McKinley’s forthcoming Cambridge University Press volume on Mailer. Can you tell us a little about your contribution?
'''PS''': Let me ask you about Maggie McKinley’s forthcoming Cambridge University Press volume on Mailer. Can you tell us a little about your contribution?


'''JML''': Sure. Maggie’s volume will be an important reconsideration of Mailer.
'''JML''': Sure. Maggie’s volume will be an important reconsideration of Mailer.
I believe she has over contributors. I know that you’ve done the chapter
I believe she has over contributors. I know that you’ve done the chapter on Mailer as a literary and film critic. She asked me if I would write on Norman Mailer and John F. Kennedy and I was happy to agree. I was surprised at how many places Kennedy shows up that I had forgotten. In my essay, I try to survey all of the major depictions of Kennedy in Mailer’s writing, approximately a dozen.
on Mailer as a literary and film critic. She asked me if I would write on Norman Mailer and John F. Kennedy and I was happy to agree. I was surprised
at how many places Kennedy shows up that I had forgotten. In my essay, I
try to survey all of the major depictions of Kennedy in Mailer’s writing, approximately a dozen.


I looked for the pattern of how his view of Kennedy evolved. His admiration for Kennedy went up and down a little at the beginning, but in the early 1960s, it was always strong. He had a rich, complex view of JFK, and was intrigued by the question of how his Hollywood leading-man appearance affected his political chances. I don’t think that there is any other historical figure that Mailer wrote about as often, and with greater penetration, than Kennedy. He wrote about him, beginning in 1960, and continuing right up
I looked for the pattern of how his view of Kennedy evolved. His admiration for Kennedy went up and down a little at the beginning, but in the early 1960s, it was always strong. He had a rich, complex view of JFK, and was intrigued by the question of how his Hollywood leading-man appearance affected his political chances. I don’t think that there is any other historical figure that Mailer wrote about as often, and with greater penetration, than Kennedy. He wrote about him, beginning in 1960, and continuing right up through ''Harlot’s Ghost'' (1991), and even later. Oliver Stone made a movie,
through ''Harlot’s Ghost'' (1991), and even later. Oliver Stone made a movie,
''JFK'', which Mailer reviewed in a long essay in which he revisited all his earlier ideas about Kennedy. And then, of course, he is a key figure in ''Oswald’s Tale''. Another key text is ''An American Dream'', where he has an off-stage role.
''JFK'', which Mailer reviewed in a long essay in which he revisited all his earlier ideas about Kennedy. And then, of course, he is a key figure in ''Oswald’s
Tale''. Another key text is   ''An American Dream'', where he has an off-stage role.
Kennedy is also in ''Cannibals and Christians''. In fact, he is in all of Mailer’s political books, and two of his novels. Mailer identified with Kennedy to a certain extent; they also had much in common. They were both of the same
Kennedy is also in ''Cannibals and Christians''. In fact, he is in all of Mailer’s political books, and two of his novels. Mailer identified with Kennedy to a certain extent; they also had much in common. They were both of the same
generation—World War Two vets—and they were both fascinated with
generation—World War Two vets—and they were both fascinated with
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wrote two film reviews, the other one examining, in full unexpurgated rigor,
wrote two film reviews, the other one examining, in full unexpurgated rigor,
Bernardo Bertolucci’s ''Last Tango in Paris''. So, reviewing ''JFK'' is obviously of
Bernardo Bertolucci’s ''Last Tango in Paris''. So, reviewing ''JFK'' is obviously of
paramount significance, which I discuss in my Cambridge essay that examines Mailer’s criticism. You also mentioned Susan Mailer’s recent memoir
paramount significance, which I discuss in my Cambridge essay that examines Mailer’s criticism. You also mentioned Susan Mailer’s recent memoir ''In Another Place'', in which she addresses her relationship with her father.
''In Another Place'', in which she addresses her relationship with her father.
Can you talk about the significance of her book?
Can you talk about the significance of her book?


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eight. She was born in Hollywood in 1949 when he was living there with Jean
eight. She was born in Hollywood in 1949 when he was living there with Jean
Malaquais, writing scripts for Sam Goldwyn. Susan’s memories go way back.
Malaquais, writing scripts for Sam Goldwyn. Susan’s memories go way back.
She saw her father in a range of contexts because he visited her often in Mexico, and he visited her later in Chile, where she eventually married and lived.
She saw her father in a range of contexts because he visited her often in Mexico, and he visited her later in Chile, where she eventually married and lived. I should add that it is not just a story of Norman Mailer—it is also a story of
I should add that it is not just a story of Norman Mailer—it is also a story of
her own life, which has been bifurcated. Half of Susan’s life was and is spent
her own life, which has been bifurcated. Half of Susan’s life was and is spent
in South America and half of it in New York City. She lived with her father
in South America, and half of it in New York City. She lived with her father
when she was a student at Barnard in the 1960s, and took part in his mayoral
when she was a student at Barnard in the 1960s, and took part in his mayoral
campaign. Susan worked on the memoir for a long time, over four or five
campaign. Susan worked on the memoir for a long time, over four or five
years. Its genesis began with her memorial tribute delivered at Carnegie Hall,
years. Its genesis began with her memorial tribute delivered at Carnegie Hall,
published in 2008 in ''The Mailer Review''.  Susan continued to write a piece here, a piece there, and she finally decided that she wanted to write a book about her life. She had never written a memoir before, so, it was quite a learning experience for her. She recently gave the keynote address at Wilkes University’s MFA graduation ceremony in January 2020 and talked about what she had to learn in order to become a memoirist. She has done a superb job and her book has received excellent reviews. There was a recent profile article about her in ''The London Times'' and her book has been written about in ''The Wall Street Journal''. I am very happy to have had a finger in Susan’s book, encouraging her, and helping with some factual references.
published in 2008 in ''The Mailer Review''.  Susan continued to write a piece here, a piece there, and she finally decided that she wanted to write a book about her life. She had never written a memoir before, so, it was quite a learning experience for her. She recently gave the keynote address at Wilkes University’s MFA graduation ceremony in January 2020, and talked about what she had to learn in order to become a memoirist. She has done a superb job and her book has received excellent reviews. There was a recent profile article about her in ''The London Times'' and her book has been written about in ''The Wall Street Journal''. I am very happy to have had a finger in Susan’s book, encouraging her, and helping with some factual references.


Susan’s book now joins all of the other important family memoirs about
Susan’s book now joins all of the other important family memoirs about
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'''PS''': I found In Another Place to be an impressive, exceptionally insightful
'''PS''': I found In Another Place to be an impressive, exceptionally insightful
memoir and I enjoyed reading it very much. Bonnie Culver (Wilkes University) has written a play, ''NORRIS'', which portrays Norris Church Mailer,
memoir and I enjoyed reading it very much. Bonnie Culver (Wilkes University) has written a play, ''NORRIS'', which portrays Norris Church Mailer, Norman’s sixth wife to whom he was married for over three decades, as I
Norman’s sixth wife to whom he was married for over three decades, as I
recall. What does this play tell us—and not just about Norman, but also
recall. What does this play tell us—and not just about Norman, but also
Norris?
Norris?
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Norris thought that this was a great idea and then, sadly, she died, but Bonnie stayed with the project. Two versions of it have been presented at the annual conferences of the Mailer Society. The script has gone through many
Norris thought that this was a great idea and then, sadly, she died, but Bonnie stayed with the project. Two versions of it have been presented at the annual conferences of the Mailer Society. The script has gone through many
revisions, and Bonnie has received considerable feedback from members of
revisions, and Bonnie has received considerable feedback from members of
the Society, from the Mailer family. ''Norris'' is going to be performing at a playhouse in Santa Monica and Anne Archer will play Norris. Anne is the right
the Society, from the Mailer family. ''Norris'' is going to be performed at a playhouses in Santa Monica and Anne Archer will play Norris. Anne is the right age, a tall redhead, and likes the script very much. So everything looks very
age, a tall redhead, and likes the script very much. So everything looks very
promising and it appears that the opening of the play will take place in Santa Monica. Bonnie is a professional playwright, as you know, and her work has appeared off-Broadway as well in other venues around the country. I believe
promising and it appears that the opening of the play will take place in Santa Monica. Bonnie is a professional playwright, as you know, and her work has
appeared off-Broadway as well in other venues around the country. I believe
that Bonnie recently wrote a review of Susan Mailer’s book, right?
that Bonnie recently wrote a review of Susan Mailer’s book, right?


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any bearing on Mailer’s life and work, and also publishing such a range of
any bearing on Mailer’s life and work, and also publishing such a range of
fine essays on virtually every aspect of his work, and unpublished Mailer
fine essays on virtually every aspect of his work, and unpublished Mailer
stories and essays, interviews and much more. Each issue you publish contains a detailed annual bibliography on works by and about Mailer that keeps
stories and essays, interviews and much more. Each issue you publish contains a detailed annual bibliography on works by and about Mailer that keeps readers in touch with what is going on within and beyond the scholarly
readers in touch with what is going on within and beyond the scholarly
world. Shannon Zinck, the bibliographer for the ''Review'', does a superb job
world. Shannon Zinck, the bibliographer for the ''Review'', does a superb job
locating all kinds of materials, stuff I never knew existed. She is an exemplary
locating all kinds of materials, stuff I never knew existed. She is an exemplary
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not for your indefatigable support from the very beginning. We have not
not for your indefatigable support from the very beginning. We have not
published an issue that has not been energized—and improved—by your
published an issue that has not been energized—and improved—by your
critical eye and your excellent suggestions for topics, articles, historical projects, contributors, and so forth. The current volume is number 13, (bringing us to roughly 6,000 pages over 13 years), and we strive to do our best. As you know, we have faced many challenges over time, like all scholarly journals. We are an all-volunteer staff and we certainly make mistakes, mostly my
critical eye and your excellent suggestions for topics, articles, historical projects, contributors, and so forth. The current volume is number 13, (bringing us to roughly 6,000 pages over 13 years), and we strive to do our best. As you know, we have faced many challenges over time, like all scholarly journals. We are an all-volunteer staff and we certainly make mistakes, mostly my errata, but we try to devote ourselves to produce an eclectic periodical that
errata, but we try to devote ourselves to produce an eclectic periodical that
is an ongoing record of relevant developments in all things Mailer. We also
is an ongoing record of relevant developments in all things Mailer. We also
include a range of other kinds of writing, including a section each issue of
include a range of other kinds of writing, including a section each issue of
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If I had the energy, I would go to Austin right now and start reading as
If I had the energy, I would go to Austin right now and start reading as
much of it as I could. I know that Nicole DePolo is very interested in researching these areas. Nicole is a member of the Mailer Board and she is
much of it as I could. I know that Nicole DePolo is very interested in researching these areas. Nicole is a member of the Mailer Board and she is quite interested because she wants to follow up her earlier work on Mailer’s
quite interested because she wants to follow up her earlier work on Mailer’s
''Ancient Evenings'', which was the topic of her dissertation. Judith, by the way,
''Ancient Evenings'', which was the topic of her dissertation. Judith, by the way,
was one of Norman’s researchers for ''Ancient Evenings''.
was one of Norman’s researchers for ''Ancient Evenings''.
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'''PS''': Nicole wrote her dissertation working with Christopher Ricks, as I recall.
'''PS''': Nicole wrote her dissertation working with Christopher Ricks, as I recall.


'''JML''': Yes, Christopher Ricks at Boston University. Nicole and John Buffalo
'''JML''': Yes, Christopher Ricks at Boston University. Nicole and John Buffalo have expressed interest in creating a kind of a graphic novel on parts of ''Ancient Evenings'' and the work that Judith did on ''Ancient Evenings'' would surely be very important. I should also note again that the Farley Library at Wilkes has Mailer’s library for scholars to review and attempt to derive a sense of the contents of his mind. The Farley’s archivist, Suzanna Calev, is doing a terrific
have expressed interest in creating a kind of a graphic novel on parts of ''Ancient Evenings'' and the work that Judith did on ''Ancient Evenings'' would surely
be very important. I should also note again that the Farley Library at Wilkes
has Mailer’s library for scholars to review and attempt to derive a sense of the
contents of his mind. The Farley’s archivist, Suzanna Calev, is doing a terrific
job organizing the library and other materials.
job organizing the library and other materials.


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written a play based on John Mailer’s ''The Big Empty'', The name of the play
written a play based on John Mailer’s ''The Big Empty'', The name of the play
is ''The Two Mailers''. ''The Big Empty'' is comprised of a series of conversations
is ''The Two Mailers''. ''The Big Empty'' is comprised of a series of conversations
between Norman and John in 2003 and 2004, when Mailer was in his early eighties. I have been told that the play is projected to open on Broadway
between Norman and John in 2003 and 2004, when Mailer was in his early eighties. I have been told that the play is projected to open on Broadway with F. Murray Abraham playing Norman Mailer. Julian Schlossberg, a film
with F. Murray Abraham playing Norman Mailer. Julian Schlossberg, a film
and theatre producer, will launch the production.
and theatre producer, will launch the production.


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out there, manifestations of Mailer’s life, his work, and how he has touched
out there, manifestations of Mailer’s life, his work, and how he has touched
so many people during the course of his life. Now we are starting to see the
so many people during the course of his life. Now we are starting to see the
fruits of these interactions. There is an analogue in what happened in Hemingway studies after he died. Hemingway’s children, siblings, and friends
fruits of these interactions. There is an analogue in what happened in Hemingway studies after he died. Hemingway’s children, siblings, and friends began generating out books, movies, and memoirs about Hemingway and
began generating out books, movies, and memoirs about Hemingway and
his family. And that process continues with books coming out, including
his family. And that process continues with books coming out, including
one written by his grandson.
one written by his grandson.
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tribulations of a very complex multigenerational “tribe.” John has spoken
tribulations of a very complex multigenerational “tribe.” John has spoken
to our graduate students at USF and he is a particularly engaging person,
to our graduate students at USF and he is a particularly engaging person,
infectious with his knowledge, wit, and an acute sense of perspective.
infectious with his knowledge, wit, and acute sense of perspective.


'''JML''': I think that the same thing is happening with Mailer. I should also
'''JML''': I think that the same thing is happening with Mailer. I should also mention how valuable your omnibus collection of Mailer’s essays is becoming for scholars and critics (''[[Mind of an Outlaw]]'', Random House, 2013). It is a great resource.
mention how valuable your omnibus collection of Mailer’s essays is becoming for scholars and critics (Mind of an Outlaw, Random House, 2013).
It is a great resource.


'''PS''': Thanks, Mike. Yes, Outlaw came out concurrently with your biography.
'''PS''': Thanks, Mike. Yes, ''Outlaw'' came out concurrently with your biography.


'''JML''': Random House is publishing more of his books in paperback. Mailer’s
'''JML''': Random House is publishing more of his books in paperback. Mailer’s
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'''PS''': What does the future hold for you?
'''PS''': What does the future hold for you?


'''JML''': Well, I guess that as far as Mailer studies are concerned, the first thing
'''JML''': Well, I guess that as far as Mailer studies are concerned, the first thing will be to get back to work on ''Lipton’s'' with Susan and Jerry, and continue to collaborate with him on ''Project Mailer''. Another project is my memoir about Mailer’s last days, which will examine some of the things that I have mentioned in this interview: how I first became involved with Mailer, how I became connected to Bob Lucid, and how I served as a kind of apprentice archivist. And, of course, how I finally took over the job of becoming Mailer’s biographer. My memoir will be based in part on the notes that I made during his last years in Provincetown, his “table talk.” I have about twenty-five thousand words written, but I have only just started to work on developing them. It is going to be a long project, but it is something I have wanted to do
will be to get back to work on Lipton’s with Susan and Jerry, and continue to
collaborate with him on ''Project Mailer''. Another project is my memoir about
Mailer’s last days, which will examine some of the things that I have mentioned in this interview: how I first became involved with Mailer, how I became connected to Bob Lucid, and how I served as a kind of apprentice
archivist. And, of course, how I finally took over the job of becoming Mailer’s
biographer. My memoir will be based in part on the notes that I made during his last years in Provincetown, his “table talk.” I have about twenty-five
thousand words written, but I have only just started to work on developing
them. It is going to be a long project, but it is something I have wanted to do
for a long time.
for a long time.


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